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    September 06

    Blogging Software

    It's always the little things that chafe, you know? I mean, for the most part I'm happy with Windows Live Spaces, but there are little things that bug me from time to time so I find myself getting antsy. On the plus side, I like the modules and the freedom to place them where I want them. I like the book list (but I'd like it better if I could a) put it in the order I want and b) could rate the books listed there). I like my links.

    But I find that I keep wanting things I get with more of a hosting service. I want more control. I'm a tinkerer, what can I say? So I've been looking at blogging software a bit. Since I have an account at Go Daddy, I'd like to find something that I can use there, and I'd like very much for it to be created in ASP.NET. It'd be nice if it was open source as well, if only so I can tweak and explore at my own capricious whim. Also, as long as I'm putting together a wish-list, how about if it could be programmed in ASP.NET 2.0? I mean, master pages and application themes with skinning support is, uh, lacking an appropriate white-guy expression, "da shiz".

    The front-runners in the .NET space for blogging software appear to be SubText and DasBlog--both are branches from their progenitor .Text which appears to be defunct. Unfortunately, since .Text was originally ASP.NET 1.1, both SubText and DasBlog are rooted in that technology. They both support custom themes, but they had to hack ASP.NET 1.1 to do so--mostly with custom controls.

    DasBlog

    I was originally drawn more to DasBlog because I've become a fan of Scott Hanselman--first from his podcasts, Hanselminutes, but later to his blog (which actually uses DasBlog, kudos for eating the dinner you've made). He's one of those over-producers who seems to have his hand in on fifteen million things at a time and is able to simultaneously talk about it all.

    However, DasBlog's main website is frequently down, and there doesn't appear to be a lot of action in the form of improvements, releases, news, or updates. Which makes me wonder if it isn't a dying product, suffering from Scott's hyper interests.

    SubText

    SubText is developed by another blogger I like, Phil Haack. Phil also lives in the house he built so you'll hear his experiences with SubText on his blog sometimes. I was intrigued to see him announce that SubText 1.9 has been released recently. SubText 1.9 is a project conversion to ASP.NET 2.0 so I was reasonably excited to see its release.

    So excited that I went ahead with an install. It was a painful experience. Not because SubText isn't a pretty good product, but an install on a cheap Go Daddy account is a step or three down from the expected configuration. The main blockage is that while Go Daddy gives you dbo (owner) privileges on your database, you have highly restricted rights on the master database. Unfortunately, the install assumes that you can use a select on a master location to see if a table already exists and that select blew chunks.

    One advantage of open source, though, is that someone reasonably competent (or simply lucky as is more likely my case) can dig through the install process and see what needs to happen. Since I could see that the table didn't exist, I ran the script manually. Unfortunately, since the install tracks installation stage in memory instead of checking the database, I ended up having to do the entire install manually instead of just that first step. Ouch.

    So it was a hack, but it appears to have succeeded. I'm not entirely happy with the implementation, though, because while SubText is now ASP.NET 2.0, it doesn't actually use the new master page and theme features. Those may be implemented in future, but since that's a relatively fundamental alteration, it would break a lot of things--particularly a lot of user-created theme files. Creating work for yourself is one thing, but making your users go back and re-do all the custom themes they so generously contributed to your project is going to be a hard sell when there isn't a well established benefit. Indeed, the roadmap implies that if it happens, it's at least two releases away (and frankly, 2.1 looks a little daunting to me and should probably be cut down some if they want to take less than a year with it).

    SUB

    One of Phil's more endearing traits is a kind of perverse generosity that led him to advertise for a competitor (while throwing down the gauntlet of course). Since I'm not entirely happy with SubText, I thought that I'd give SUB (Single-User Blog) a look-see.

    Frankly, I like SUB. It's pretty simple and since it's done from scratch in ASP.NET 2.0, it has all the goodies I've been looking for and some I had thought of but didn't figure I could get.

    Unfortunately, SUB has two draw-backs that make me hesitate. The first is that it is, as its title clearly states, single-user. One thing I came to like about SubText is that you can support more than one blog from an installation. Indeed, I was able to point both domains I had registered with Go Daddy to the same location, have them run the exact same files, and yet have each site perfectly individualized (it does this by checking the incoming URL address to know which blog settings to use).

    The second draw-back has to do with my personal tastes in programming, so I'm going to leave that for another post.

    So what?

    I've no idea what I'll end up doing with my blog(s). Since one of them is a new one for Cawti, I'll have to make some relatively irrevocable choices really soon here. I'm feeling all Frankensteiny, though, so I may just mash pieces of lots of different things together so I can terrorize intolerant villagers. Yeah, that sounds fun...

    Update:

    Woa. Scott Hanselman got a hold of this post (so he's the one who visited last night!) and responded. Which is frankly really cool of him to do. I'll attempt clarification in a comment there, though his points are good ones.

    Comments (7)

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    Dave Burkewrote:
    Jacob, thanks for replying!  You're certainly not alone in being intimidated in customizing Community Server without any prior experience with it.  Making configuration and customization easier is one of the primary focuses in the next version.  I wish you the best in your decision.  Keep us posted!

    Sept. 15
    You ask, I answer :).  I actually went with Community Server first.  I should have mentioned it in this post, probably.  I have two problems with Community Server.  First, customizing the themes is way more complex than it should be.  I did the research for altering the appearance of my blog and was intimidated.  I don't intimidate easily.

    Second, I also wanted to skip the base address/summary page--so that http://whatever.com/ would be the blog and anything else would be served up from there.  I'm sure that this is possible, but figuring out how just took me too long.

    That's two things I wanted to do that should have been simple enough for someone like me (by which I mean not easily intimidated).  In a couple of hours of research, I was unable to solve the problems.  That's when I started looking for blog-specific software.
    Sept. 15
    Dave Burkewrote:
    What a great post, Jacob!  I'm a little intimidated following guys like Phil Haack and Scott Hanselman, but I need to jump in here.  You should know I'm biased since I'm a Community Server Evangelist, but I guess I'm no more biased than Phil or Scott. :-)  I'm curious why Community Server isn't on your consideration list?  ASP.NET 2.0, full source code availability, the very same engine that runs sites like weblogs.asp.net, blogs.msdn.com and Channel 9, photo gallery, document library and forums (if you want to turn them on), tagging, and other technologies both on the page and under the covers that I won't get into here.  But my primary reason I think you should add Community Server to the list is because Scott Watermasysk, author of .Text, is the guy at the helm of its development.  (There are five other developers who work full-time on the Community Server Engine and believe me, these guys are really, really good, too.)
     
    I started out with .Text, first at weblogs.asp.net, then setting up my own .Text blog that included a DNN front door and nGallery for photos.  Then .Text went away and I looked at alternatives.  DasBlog is a great app, but I wanted something SQL Server-based.  I then looked at SubText very closely, particularly since I was so familiar with the .Text source.  But my decision to go with Community Server 1.0 was because ScottW said it was time to move on to Community Server, and that was good enough for me.
     
    I won't go long here, but Community Server has a VERY active community which you can check out for yourself at http://communityserver.org/forums.  There's also a CS Daily News blog that comes out every day (and written by me!), so you can get a sense for what's happening with CS and the community there, too.  http://communityserver.org/blogs/dailynews/default.aspx
     
    The main thing is what blog engine works for you, and you can't go wrong with either DasBlog or SubText.  I'll definitely be looking forward to reading more about your decision-making process.
     
    Sept. 12
    Picture of Anonymous
    Haacked wrote:
    I would love to have thumbnails too! :)  SubtextSkins.com was the best I could do in a really short time.  Perhaps someone will take up the gauntlet and implement thumbnail previews in Subtext.
    Sept. 11
    Woa, comments from both Scott and Phil. I am immensely flattered.
     
    I've had something of an exchange with Scott on his post about this. Some great clarification there for anyone interested.
     
    Phil, I caught the reference to subtextskins.com from your blog and like it a lot, though I wish I could see at least thumbnails from within SubText while choosing skins. I've dug into skinning SubText enough to copy an existing theme, create a Skin.User.config, and mess with a value in the css to cut the title font size down. Baby steps :). I admit to being intimidated by all the user controls, though.
     
    Since this post has gotten such high-profile attention, I intend to post follow-ups as I go. Action doesn't always match intention, so standard caveats apply. Being the ego-hound any blogger is, I'll likely email those reviewed if/when it happens :).
    Sept. 9
    Picture of Anonymous
    Haacked wrote:
    I've been called "Perverse" for many reasonse, but this is the first time I've heard "Perverse Generosity" used to describe me. Thanks!
     
    As for MasterPages, technically Subtext does use it for the admin sections, but you are right, the skinning doesn't use it.  But that will change. Right now the skinning engine uses the same essential engine that .TEXT used.
     
    As for making users have to redo themes, we hope to make that very simple.  First of all, most custom skins are slight variations of the packaged skins.  Since we're planning to redo all the skins that come with Subtext, it shouldn't be too difficult to migrate.
     
    Secondly, for truly custom skins that users with to share with the community, they can submit them to subtextskins.com and my goal is to convert those as well.  We'll see how that goes.
     
     
    Sept. 8
    Scottwrote:

    "However, DasBlog's main website is frequently down, and there doesn't appear to be a lot of action in the form of improvements, releases, news, or updates. Which makes me wonder if it isn't a dying product, suffering from Scott's hyper interests."

    DasBlog.Info is down sometimes because it's run on a volunteer basis out of Tom's basement. We're working on that, but it doesn't really affect the quality of the product...

    On the "not a lot of action" point, I'm a little surprised by that. Have you read my blog over the last 6 months? http://www.hanselman.com/blog/CategoryView.aspx?category=DasBlog 

    We're just releasing 1.9 soon, we've got daily bulds every day, we've added literally dozens of cutting edge features (http://www.hanselman.com/blog/UpcomingDasBlog19.aspx) and are working on the roadmap for the .NET Framework 3.0 version.

    And I stress we - There's an active group of a dozen or so contributors who are continuing to make DasBlog a great platform. It's not just me.

    Here's a post on how to contribute to a project like DasBlog - http://www.hanselman.com/blog/ExampleHowToContributeAPatchToAnOpenSourceProjectLikeDasBlog.aspx

    Since this post, dozens of patches have been added, many bug fixed. We also ship with 23 themes to choose from and more are on the way.

    Sept. 8

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